Wednesday, January 19, 2011
Interview with Dana DeArmond
Check out Dana DeArmond on Twitter and on her website, The Internet's Girlfriend.
The photo is by Ben/Ghost of Project 1.
Danny: So, do you know anything about what I'm about to ask you?
Dana: No. This is an exercise in spontaneity.
Danny: I'm gonna be writing an essay on ethical porn, if that's even such a thing.
Dana: Is that even a thing?
Danny: Well, that's my question. That's why I'm asking you and other people some questions.
Dana: It depends on what you consider to be your set of ethics. Mine are pretty darn broad, I'd say.
Danny: From my memory, you've been performing... Well, first of all...
Dana: First of all, let's just establish that we used to basically be married.
Danny: Right. So you're Dana DeArmond, right?
Danny: I'm Danny Wylde.
Danny: You've been a performer in the adult industry for about six years?
Dana: Seven, in February. I started in February, 2004.
Danny: And you've directed some movies too?
Dana: Yes, Dana DeArmond Does the Internet and Dana DeArmond's Role Modeling, which you were in, and you made with me, and we made them together, and you edited them, and you had a lot to do with it. You actually made huge, huge decisions in that movie.
Did I ever thank you for that? Thank you.
Daniel: You're welcome, but you're still the director. So moving on, what would you say you're best known for in the adult industry?
Dana: Well, I kind of market myself as the ultimate girl next door, and the Internet's girlfriend. I'm very well known for social networking, and having a lot of friends on MySpace, and Facebook, and Twitter. And I make YouTube videos and stuff like that. So I think I'm most known for the way I market myself above my actual porn performances. But I also do pretty much everything there is to do in porn, so it kind of depends on who you ask. I do everything from softcore to super hardcore, to bondage/fetish stuff. And I do everything in between. So I offer a little something to everyone.
Danny: Have you ever performed in pornographic scenes that would be considered rough, or even violent?
Dana: Absolutely. I've done a lot of very rough scenes.
I worked for Rocco Siffredi in Europe last year. It was in a scenario where I was being held prisoner by Nazis. And I asked them if maybe they thought that was offensive. They kind of looked at me like, “Why?” And I said, “Well, because my dad is Jewish.” They had a real “duh” moment. It was kind of a rough scene, and I was working with people who didn't really speak English. I don't know. I remember that being tougher than normal.
Danny: Can you describe some of the sex acts that would be considered rough?
Dana: Well, I did a lot of very strict bondage scenes when I first started with a lot of fondling by male dominants. I do a lot of really hard, rough, high energy sex scenes that include spanking, or face slapping, or choking, or gagging.
I do a lot of anal. I guess people might consider that rough even though it honestly makes no difference to me. Because I think that a lot of people have the impression that having anal sex somehow hurts you, which it totally doesn't if you're doing it right, or if you like it.
My relationship with pain is much different than a lot of people. Like, people think that being slapped in the face is something that you wouldn't want to have happen to you. I have a very different relationship to pain and how it excites me, and intrigues me.
Danny: You told me recently about a scene you did for a company that I will keep out of this...
Dana: A very popular company...
Danny: ... Where you told the production that you refused to carry on with the proposed scenario.
Dana: Is that why you're interviewing me?
Danny: I mean, most of the questions aren't about that. But it came to mind when I was doing this. I was just hoping you could describe the situation?
Dana: Yeah. So I was working for this company and they had asked me to do some dialog that involved me being a waitress and being sexually harassed by the manager, and him reminding me that I was not skilled enough to get a job elsewhere, especially in the present economy.
Upon hearing that, I was like, “Fine.” You know, that's like semi-realistic. But they had different set-ups where the harassment had escalated, and it got to the point where the male authority figure had me in a position where I was pinned to the bar, and he was disrobing me against my will and trying to penetrate me anally with his finger. It was supposed to be a sort of punishment, or a way to embarrass or humiliate me.
At that point I was like, “This is gross. I don't think anybody should watch this. I don't think anybody can jack off to it.” It just made me increasingly more uncomfortable.
Danny: Why don't you think anyone should watch that?
Dana: Well, a lot of people fast-forward through the dialog anyway. And we had already well-established the scenario with three previous set-ups where I had been harassed by this person.
It fucking sucked for me, because I really like the crew. I really like the director. I worked with him as a performer tons of times. I really liked the guy that I was working with. He's really, really sweet, and naturally submissive.
I also feel like I am a dominant performer now. I don't do any sub work, and I only dom. And I just felt like I was out of my comfort zone. For them to get away with pushing me so much... I felt that it was just rude and unnecessary. I don't think people should watch that because I feel that it creates some kind of an idea that that's a reasonable way to get a woman to sleep with you, or something.
We were talking about it on set. I was like, “Who writes these scripts?” And they were like, “Oh, these people who don't get laid.” They think the only way you can get a woman to fuck you is if you get her drunk, or you threaten her, or you try to blackmail her, or something. Basically, women are prostitutes, or drug addicts, or fucking idiots according to whoever is writing these scripts. And I just did not feel good enforcing that sort of idea. Because it's just gross. And there's other ways of doing it. You can move it along.
I think the point they were trying to get to was that they wanted me to flip the aggression and become the aggressor in the scene. Like, “I'm not gonna take it any more.” But in real life, I was like, “No! Fuck this. I'm not gonna fucking take this anymore.”
There's acting and then there's really just screwing with people. If this had been some other person in the industry who had been sexually molested, or raped, or something, that could have triggered something very serious in their mind. And that could have fucked them up. I was just like, “Who's idea is it to do this to people?” Because there are people who are very sensitive to those kind of scenarios, because they've had some previous unfortunate thing happen to them.
I'm very fortunate that I've never been in a position where I've been sexually assaulted or anything like that. People are like, “Girls love rape. Girls love rape fantasies.” And I'm like, “No. Not really.”
Honestly, it's something people say as a joke. Rape isn't sexy. Nobody wants to be raped. Period. If you like rough sex, that's one thing. But honestly, no one wants to be raped. I think that's where people get confused. They think because a girl likes to be held down or restrained, she must want to be raped. And I feel like it's a dangerous thing to suggest.
Danny: Did you know about that scenario prior to going to work that day?
Dana: No. I didn't know about it. And honestly, we were just working through the script as we went. Nobody really read the script.
I had gone to set at like 8:30am. And by the time it was three-o-clock, and we were still doing dialog, I was in tears. It takes a lot to upset me, especially at work. I really do go in with my A-game. I try to move things along as quickly as possible. I try to offer up suggestions, and be as helpful as I possibly can. But after hours, and hours, and hours of this play-rape, I was over it. There's only so much a person can endure of something that makes them feel uncomfortable.
And I am not opposed to doing things that make me feel uncomfortable, because it's part of a learning experience. My comfort zone has broadened so much over the last seven years. And I've experienced so many things that I maybe wouldn't do again now that I'm thirty-one and not twenty-four. But I'm glad that I've done them. Now, as a dom, I can say to people that I've done this myself, and wouldn't do something to you that I haven't done myself.
Danny: Going back to the situation you just described, you actually spoke up and got them to change it, correct?
Dana: Yeah, I got them to change the script because they saw me upset, and they'd never seen me upset. They kind of understood that it was not alright to just do whatever script [the company] hands down.
It's just like going to a job. They're just doing their job. It's like going to an office. They just do what they're told, and cash the paychecks just like everybody else. It's not rocket science at all, and they're not pretending that it is.
But they expressed that they had been uncomfortable with some scripts as well, with some of the scenarios- that they were degrading to women, or just stupid, or super unrealistic, or whatever. They're as entitled to their opinion as they want to be, but if everyone is consensually agreeing to act out these things, it shouldn't be a problem. Because everybody's level of comfortability is different. If one person on the crew is like, “This script is a little rapey,” they're not going to be like, “Fine! We're not gonna do this.” They're gonna be like, “Well, the girl wants to do it, and the guy is fine with it, so whatever.” Because you're just doing your job.
But on that specific day, with that specific scenario, and with that group of people, I just felt like, “You know what? I'm not gonna do this.” And I was really glad that I did. Because they said, “You're right.”
I don't think that they've ever had anybody speak up for themselves and say, “I'm not comfortable.” Because it's something that's very rare. People think that they'll lose their job. It's the exact same scenario that the script was written about. And, you know, I'm not a slave to this at all. I said, “I'm sorry to waste your time and your money. You don't have to pay me for this, but I'm going to leave because I can't do it. And I don't need the money. I save my money. I'm very talented. People book me all the time.
It felt good that I could speak up for myself and say, “I'm not comfortable doing that.” Honestly, it was unnecessary, and they changed it for me immediately.
Danny: Do you think that in the past you might have felt just as comfortable speaking up for yourself? Say, when you first started out?
Dana: I think when I first started out, my game plan, or how I approached situations, was to say like, “I'm not prepared to do that,” in advance. I would not agree to do something beforehand. Now that I've done so much, I feel like I can filter out what I don't want to do instead of limiting myself.
When I first started, I didn't want to have sex with people. I did only bondage movies. And I didn't have sex with a man on camera until I was in the business for about a year and a half. Then, after that, I only worked for people who I knew personally. My comfortability was broadened when I met more people and did more scenes, and kind of got into my groove.
Now that I've been working so long, and have been with my agent for so long, he just says, “Oh, you're working for this company, or that company.” I can just tell my agent that I don't feel like I want to sub anymore, so he let anyone book me to sub anymore. Because I can't stand to be tied up. Because I'm a weenie now.
You can call it whatever you want. But I don't feel like I'm in a good place in my life where I want to be tied up. I feel more comfortable domming people, because I feel like I know what I'm doing. Because I subbed for so long. And I feel like there's a lot of people who dom who don't know what the fuck they're doing because they're like, “I'm a dominant person.” I've been hurt a lot of times, and I've been marked up, and I've been bruised, and I've been injured. It's not something that I want for myself, and I don't want something like that to happen to somebody else. So I feel like I need to take the initiative to be the person who can dom without marking or injuring or bruising somebody.
Danny: Have you ever felt like you did a scene where you were degrading another performer?
Dana: Well, no. I don't feel like I've degraded anyone. I've definitely, as a dom, made girls cry. I've felt like it was with good reason, I've felt like it was cathartic, and it was something they wanted to feel. I didn't do anything malicious, or mean. I didn't try to dissect their brain and figure out what could trigger them to be upset. Because I only want the best for people.
I do fist girls in the ass, and I spit on them, and I call them names. I don't feel like they're in any way degraded. Because I extensively discuss with them what is okay and what is not okay beforehand. I ask them, “Is there anything you don't want me to say to you? Do you not want me to pull your hair? Do you not want me to call you a whore?” Or whatever. You never know what it's gonna be.
I know a girl who doesn't want to be called stupid. Of all the things you could call her, being called stupid bothers her. So people don't do it. And if somebody does, then she's like, “Okay, 'No.' Do not call me stupid. That's the one thing I asked you not to do.” I think it's important to know what you're okay with or not okay with, and speak up about it.
Everything else that I've ever done that I've ever felt “iffy” about, I've said, “Well, I'm gonna try it, I'm gonna give it my best, and if it doesn't work out, I'm gonna chalk it up to experience.” I've never felt like I was in any danger, or in a situation that would fuck me up mentally. I've always had Mark Spiegler, as my agent, to be my sort of mom and dad in the porn industry. I trust that he wouldn't put me in some sort of environment where I would be compromising myself in any way.
I guess I worked for Khan Tusion for Anal Lick Fest and he tried to degrade me, but I laughed at him. But my co-star was Charlotte Vale. And he dug in really hard on her and asked her very personal questions about her family, and her twin sister. I could tell that it was upsetting her. But I also know that she's a lifestyle submissive. I felt that being there with her to help her through the scene was enough. Because, far be it for me to try and protect somebody from doing what they want to do, in their adult life, for a living.
But I could kind of tell that it effected her a little bit. But again, the man said, “If there's something you don't want to answer, don't answer it.” I think she went into the mode of trying to please and accommodate people.
It wasn't my favorite scene to do, but I was very amused that this man was trying to figure out and decode me brain in so many different ways to try to hurt my feelings. I just laughed at him. He tried to call me old and insult the way I look, and stuff like that. I was like, “I'm doing pretty well for somebody my age in this business. And I'm pretty fucking hot because people pay me to be naked. So I don't know what you're problem is.”
If you've ever seen Khan Tusion, he's like an old, fat guy, you know? “I'm not fucking scared of you.” I know that he's just some fucking guy that doesn't get fucked. He wants to make girls fucking feel bad to get kicks, or whatever.
I actually had lunch with him one time, and he tried to choke me in public. I said, “Oh dad, you're so funny.” Because, I'm not gonna let anybody try and fuck with me. Not even Khan Tusion can degrade me. He can kiss my ass. I would work for him again, actually.
Danny: Have you ever felt degraded or taken advantage of on a porn set?
Dana: I've had some people try to fuck me up with money. I felt like that was a little bit degrading to treat me like I'm not worth what I've asked to be paid. People will try to tell me that they don't want to pay my rate, but it has nothing to do with the sex part. People try to insult me when it comes to paying me money.
Danny: This is after a sex scene?
Dana: After, before or whatever. People try to offer me a job for something that's way lower than my rate. I feel insulted. I don't know if its degrading. But it's kind of gross to me to say that, “Oh, this girl will do this for that amount of money,” or whatever.
I feel gross that people have that kind of opinion, that women are interchangeable, and we'll get the next one for cheaper. It's objectifying. And that makes me kind of uncomfortable. But, I mean, it's only business. So I have to know not to take it too personally because of the dollars and cents of it. But, as a woman, and as a sex worker, knowing my self worth, it's hard not to take something like that personally.
Danny: Have there been times where you were acting as a sexual submissive where you actually felt empowered?
Dana: Yeah. Absolutely. Testing my pain threshold, and seeing how far I can push myself to do things is very fascinating to me. At the end of the day, when I'm getting fucked, I have someone's cock in my mouth. That's more of a power position than anything else. Because that person has to trust me with their cock in my mouth. I could hurt anybody as badly as anybody could try to hurt me. But I could probably hurt them worse. So I think it's a matter of how much I can take. But I only compete with myself, I think.
Every single scene is different. Even if you do the same scene with the same people involved, it's going to turn out different the next day. I generally feel empowered as a sex worker because it affords me a certain lifestyle, and I know so much more about myself and my sexuality. I feel like I'm more emotionally intelligent than other people because I've figured out what it is about myself that motivates me. That's also what my movies were about: the motivation of people and why they would want to try to get involved in the sex industry.
I take everything as a whole experience. It's not just that I'm submissive to this person, and I'm dominant to this person. It's all very empowering because it's a lifestyle that I actively choose.
I enjoy working, and I enjoy the opportunities given to me. Even though I'm not the newest, hottest, little thing, I still get to do a lot of really interesting work. I always feel like I'm growing as a human, and as a sex worker, and as an artist. I've always felt like if I stopped progressing, there would be no point in me doing this for a living anymore. I just have not met that point.
I've always had moments when I get bummed out. Like I read something about myself on the Internet, and I want to quit. Everyone has those moments where they're sensitive, or overly sensitive. You've been there to see me go through that kind of bullshit. But I still feel like I have something to contribute to this business. Even though its not the nicest or most forgiving industry to be in. I'm not burned out on it. So I'm going to continue. And hopefully people will learn something from me, you know?
I always feel really good when I work with a brand new performer, and they're like, “You're so amazing. I've never been fisted in the ass before.” And I'm like, “Now you have. And that's something you can write in your diary.” It feels good to share that kind of experience. Because I feel like I really make people feel comfortable. I really like the idea of making people feel comfortable doing really filthy, dirty, scary sex. I try to take it to the limit, but make sure everyone feels good about it.
Danny: What are your opinions on drugs and alcohol on set? Do you think a performer who has had a few drinks or is under the influence of marijuana can perform with informed consent?
Dana: I've seen people work stoned. I've seen people drink on set. I don't do it myself. But I feel like if that is how people function... It's not up to me to decide if someone is an alcoholic or if they have a problem with drugs. I can only be concerned if they're compromising their own safety, or the safety of others.
Danny: Do you think it makes a difference if they're doing harder drugs on set?
Dana: Honestly, it's not something that I've seen ever. I've never seen hard drugs on a set. But I am aware that people smoke weed, or that they have a drink, or they might even get drunk. They might be taking Xanax or whatever their deal is.
Honestly, if someone has a medical need for it - if they have anxiety - or if they just like taking drugs and that's where their normal level is, or they function that way, or if they need to have some mind altering substance in their system to be able to do their job, that's up to them.
I'm not gonna tell people, “You shouldn't do this for a living if you have to be on Xanax.” Because it's none of my fucking business. It's not. If I feel like somebody's too fucked up that they don't know what's going on, I'm gonna say, “I'm not very comfortable fucking this person because they're obviously fucked up on drugs.” But I've never had that experience. Ever.
I've fucked people, I've tied them up, I've beaten them, and they were in such deep space that it was like they were on drugs. So I can understand how it is because I've done that so many times.
Like, after I've done a really hard session, I've felt like I was really fuckin' high on drugs, and I would be completely sober. I can see why somebody might want something like that, or how it would make them feel good, or enhance sex for that person. But it's not something that I know a great deal about from firsthand experience. Because I don't drink, or do drugs, or smoke weed when I'm working.
Danny: Have you ever witnessed someone sent home for drug or alcohol abuse on set?
Dana: No, but I've worked with people who were obviously drunk. I was overseas with a girl that was very, very drunk the whole time. It seems like the industry rewards bad behavior in a way. People like the party vibe.
Like, when I quit drinking back in 2003, I was fired from a titty bar for being sober. I thought that was an isolated incident, but now that I've been in the porn industry for so many years, I see that people are like, “This person's a party animal, this person's the life of the party, this person's so much fun.”
But I have my concerns. I've actually made phone calls and said, “I was with this person for eight days straight and she never stopped drinking, and I'm really worried for her safety and her health.” The person on the other end said, “Oh, she's okay. She always drinks like that.” I said, “Well, okay, you obviously don't care about that person at all.” I tried to express to the people who were closest to her that she was endangering herself and others. That's where I feel that it's time for someone to say something. It was obvious that no one had ever said anything before.
Danny: Do you think this kind of drug or alcohol abuse is common in the industry?
Dana: I don't think it's any more prevalent in the porn industry than any other work place. I don't have facts in front of me, or anything. But the porn industry is, in the grand scheme of things, such a small pool of people. There are more bus drivers than porn stars in America. There are more lawyers. There are more librarians. To say drugs is a problem in the porn business... it's not. Not anymore than anywhere else. Not anymore than a doctor writing himself prescriptions for Oxycontin. Or, you know, a janitor cooking Meth. Am I being stereotypical? (she laughs) Just kidding.
Danny: Do you ever enjoy being called a cunt, whore, slut, bitch, or any other derogatory name during sex?
Dana: Yeah, it's fine with me. I just don't really understand when some girls say, “You can call me a slut, and you can call me a whore, but don't use the 'C' word at all.” They're just words. And if the person wants to call me a name, it's fine. I don't have any bad triggers. I've never been verbally abused in my life.
It's just a matter of protocol - what you say - and they're just words. I could turn around and call that person a cunt too. And sometimes I do.
Danny: So there's no word that you don't think people should call each other?
Dana: No. I think it's actually funnier when people call each other wiener. I like to go the extreme in the other way to show how ridiculous it is to be using all these words, trying to be offensive, and aggressive towards one another. I feel it's more dominant to say things with a certain inflection than to swear at somebody.
When I made that girl cry, I didn't call her a fuckin' name. I looked her right in the eye and asked her if there was something else she'd rather be doing right now. And it did something in her mind that made her cry. I felt like that was very powerful. It's not like I was sitting there saying, “You're a little fucking cunt. Look at what a whore you are.” I asked her, “Is there something else you'd rather be doing right now?” That's why I think I'm a good dom. Because I'm like, “Wow. I fuckin' nailed it.”
After she cried, I stopped and asked her, “Are you okay? Do you want to keep going? I'm not trying to confuse you in any way. If I ask you a question, whatever you answer is going to be wrong for the scenario. As long as you keep that in mind, and don't take it too personally, I'm okay with continuing. But I don't want to do anything that will push you to the point where you go insane.”
Because that's not my goal. I'm not trying to make people go insane. I'm not trying to make them feel bad. I'm trying to do a job that I was hired to do. I'm not trying to be a hackneyed bitch, and just be like, “You're a fucking whore. Fuck you. Look at what a fucking whore you are.” Because it's boring. It's uninteresting. It appeals to the lowest common denominator. I feel it's sexier to try and explore a person's mind. To explore where their comfortability lies, and maybe push them a little bit. But not push them too far.
If you can find the exact middle of that, then that is going to make a perfect scene.
Danny: So I did a little research...
Dana: (Laughs) On me?
Danny: ... about some of the movies you were in.
Dana: This is ridiculous.
Danny: I'm sorry. Uh... You've been cast in such films as Stretched Open Slimy Vaginas...
Dana: Oh, can I tell you that he asked me how to spell both slimy and vagina – [the director's name].
Danny: You've been in Suck It Bitch, No Cum Dodging Allowed, Sperm Receptacles #3, Gang Bang My Face, etc... When you hear titles like these, do you feel like they have any negative connotations towards women?
Dana: No. Honestly, I do the scene. And I sign a release. And they can take the footage and edit it however they feel like. They can even overdub my voice to say whatever they want. They can put whatever - “Dana DeArmond is a fucking idiot” - on the box. I have no control over it.
They can tell me the movie's gonna be called Mother Theresa's Gonna Help Everyone In Haiti. But honestly, it's gonna end up being called Sperm Receptacles. But I don't care because it's fucking porn. I don't fucking give a shit because I'm taking a check and putting it into my bank account. Whatever they want to call the movie, because they think it sounds catchy, and people will buy it, then go for it. Be my guest. Maybe Stretched Open Slimy Vaginas is not the most appealing title ever. It is personally not something I would pick up.
But No Cum Dodging Allowed – it tells you the girl is going to eat cum. It kind of tells you what the movies is going to be about. Suck It Bitch is a blowjob movie. Why would I be worried? They called me a bitch in the title? I'm sucking dicks. It's absolutely trivial. They can rework the title, and put out comp[ilation]s, and call it whatever.
They've taken movies and made me a MILF. And they've taken the exact same scene and made me a teen. The context is whatever they feel like marketing it as. Honestly, it makes no sense. Basically, I just want people to know that I fuck like a crazy person and I always do my best.
So whatever the movie's called, it's going to be good if I'm in it. Even if it's called Unicorns Go To Candy Island.
Danny: What do you think about condom use on straight sets? Do you think it should be presented as a choice to performers?
Dana: Yes. Definitely. When I first started doing porn in February 2004, I had no sexual contact with men, and minimal contact with women. And it was because I struggled with the idea of whether I wanted to set an example to those who saw me having sex, and if I wanted that example to be of someone who was okay with not using condoms. Because before, I only used condoms. I never had unprotected sex before I got in the business. And that's why it took me so long.
Because, if you remember, when I was trying to crossover from doing bondage movies to working for straight porn companies, I was talking to Eon McKai, who shot me in my first DVD, Neu Wave Hookers. I had to prove to him that I was willing to do it.
I don't know. It was really a strange time because I struggled with it so much. I really wasn't sure if I was going to be a person that was okay with showing that as an example of sexual activity. Because when I got in the business, I felt it was an exploration of my own sexuality. It was something that I struggled with for a long time. Then when I started testing regularly, and I felt that testing every three weeks was just as good or better than condom use, I felt a new source of comfortability.
I do like doing condom scenes sometimes because I feel like it's kind of kinky. Like, I think I had you fuck me with a condom before at home because I was like, “This is gonna be weird,” or whatever, for us. Because we have so much unprotected sex for a living.
Danny: Are there negative factors associated with using condoms on porn sets?
Dana: Some of the guys have trouble keeping their boner up under the circumstances. Because there's other people milling around, and there's lots of starting and stopping, and things like that. So I can see why people would rather not use a condom.
But, you know, I have really no opinion on what looks better. I think there's a lot of people who want to say, “The consumer wants no condoms in porn,” which I think is probably not that true considering how well Wicked does, being condom-only. And how expensive gay porn is and how much is sold, and it's all condom.
So I'm not sure who's perpetuating the idea that people don't want to buy movies with condoms. I think maybe it's a good-old-boys club secretly on one corner of the Internet just posting it all over the Internet and somebody's drinking the Kool-Aid.
But I don't mind doing scenes with condoms as long as the dicks are hard. It's just another layer of protection, I think.
Danny: Are there any sexual acts you believe should not be performed on camera?
Dana: I feel like Evil Angel has a good policy of not doing anal cream pies. None of Evil Angel's stuff has cream pies.
I mean, obviously, things you see in porn are a performance, not necessarily something you should try at home. We're professionals. And maybe you should not try sticking a baseball bat up your ass at home. But if it's something you want to do, I would say, “Work up to it.”
But I feel like it's more responsible to have a policy like Evil Angel's - to not show cum going in a girl's ass, or a guy's ass, or whatever. Because anal cream pies are probably one of the most high risk activities. While it's something I've done at home with my partner, it might not be the best idea if it's something you see in a movie, and then you're gonna go out and try it. Because that's the best way to catch anything: HIV, chlamydia, herpes, HPV, whatever. That's probably the worst thing you can do for your body, besides getting pregnant. And that would be a vaginal cream pie - which I think is stupid anyway.
I don't understand why people insist on shooting real cream pies when you can use fake cum. I've done fake cream pies before and they look just the same. The point of the pop shot is to see the cum shoot out of the dick. To do cream pies is a high risk activity for pretty much no visual appeal. There's no visual appeal to it at all. It's just dangerous. The male performer doesn't know if the girl is on birth control or not. They'll do a cream pie in someone's pussy like no problem. And they don't even know the girl.
I feel like it's a super personal thing too. It adds a layer of risk that is completely unnecessary when we have the technology and movie magic to squirt some Cetaphil up in your pussy and squirt it out. It's not fucking rocket science. But people insist on doing these high risk activities because... I feel like they're trying to get women to do more, and more, and more, even if they don't know the risk factors involved with doing them. That's kind of why I don't do it myself. Maybe people shouldn't be asking young girls to do things like that because they're most likely uneducated about it.
Danny: There are some companies that interview models before or after sex. Do you think this effects the scene in any way?
Dana: It think it opens a dialog between the people who are performing, and it also shows the audience the difference between what is being acted out and the person being themselves, and them saying, “I'm okay with this or I'm not okay with this.”
Then even in the after interview - when you can see the girl say, “Oh yeah, I would do that again,” but you can tell by her voice that she actually wouldn't... I think that it's very telling. I think that it gives the audience a good idea of the difference between the fantasy and the acting out of it, especially when you're doing a hard scene with strict bondage and domination. Because there has to be some sort of a break. You can't go around thinking all women are fuck pigs who want to be spat on all the time. It's unrealistic.
I think it does convey the idea of it being a consensual experiment, or whatever you want to call it. Because I think without the interview people might think, “That girl is being abused.” For whatever it's worth, whatever the girl's reaction is, you can say, “This is what you agreed to. This is what you asked to not happen to you. And this was the final outcome.” Even when you're shooting something like that, you're always checking in with the person, saying, “How did you feel about that? Are you okay with this? Do you not want anymore of that?” Because somebody might change their mind mid-scene.
I'll have girls say, “You can do anything to me,” and I'm like, “Okay.” I'm not trying to fuck them up or anything, but if they say that I can do anything, I'm going to use carte blanche on their ass - to see what they will actually let me get away with. I'm not trying to do anything harmful. But it might be useful in the future not to say to someone they just met, “You can do anything to me.”
They're in fact pretty lucky they said it to me, and not somebody else first. Because there are people who would take advantage of that.
Danny: Do you think consumers should assume performers are providing full consent despite the lack of things like interviews?
Dana: It's their responsibility to get their entertainment from a reliable source. Because there's no guarantee that everything's completely consensual with the Internet.
Daniel: How do you think you could define a reliable source, though?
Dana: I guess companies that... I don't know. That's actually a good question. Even companies that don't air the interview - sometimes they'll interview the performers and have it on file in case something is brought up against them. Maybe all companies should do interviews even if they don't post them.
I could also see where the appeal is not knowing whether it's really somebody's ex-girlfriend being taped in the shower or pooping, or whatever. I can understand where people might want that voyeuristic thing of seeing something they're not supposed to be seeing.
But I don't necessarily think that's the best thing to condone. Because it might get people interested in seeing more things that they're not supposed to be seeing. Like, people don't want to go in body scanners at the airport because they think the body scanner people are looking at their genitals. It makes people paranoid. Obviously, I feel like people should just watch porn that's fabricated, and not necessarily be peeping tom's to those who don't want to be seen naked.
Danny: Do you think it can be a healthy fantasy if the consumer's actually aware that it's not real?
Dana: Even celebrity sex tapes where like, “Oh somebody got Kim Kardishian's sex tape and Vivid's going to release it. And Kim is suing them...” We're all aware, in the porn industry, that she had to sign a 2257 release on that and give two forms of identification.
I think that a lot of this fake stolen-sex-tape stuff is eroticizing the violation of someone's privacy. And I think that idea is a little dangerous. I don't feel like that's something that's healthy to eroticize. Because it might leak over into some legal problems. Because people might take that fantasy too far.
Danny: Do you think that a company that produces rough or violent content should be held to higher standards in terms of providing interviews or consent?
Dana: I do feel like that's why Kink.com does their interviews. I feel like they would not have been consistently getting top names in the porn industry and hundreds and hundreds of models if they were doing things that were questionable or non-consensual. Or if they were doing anything that was harmful.
Danny: Can you think of anything other than an interview stating explicit consent that would make you feel comfortable watching a staged rape scenario between two people you've never met?
Dana: I don't think so. I don't think I would be comfortable with seeing something like that if I didn't know the people were okay.
But I also don't really watch porn. It would be hard to say. I'm even more uncomfortable with seeing violent movies; like mainstream movies that have graphic violence. I know that Hollywood movies are fake, obviously, and everyone's okay. It's just something that I'm not interested in because it makes me uncomfortable. It's not something that I feel good about. So I feel like I would react the same way if it was in a pornographic context. It's just something that I'm not interested in seeing. Even if I knew it was just a movie. I'm just not into it.
Danny: Have you performed in anything like that?
Dana: I don't believe so. I don't know. In general, I'm just not very comfortable with that. I do very rough scenes. There's not much I won't do or say. But not to my recollection. I don't think I have.
I feel like if something were presented to me in that way, I would probably say, “No, thank you.” It's not sexy. It's gross to me. It's not funny, and it's not sexy. There's other things you can do that are just as salacious, or shocking, or whatever. I'm nominated for the most outrageous sex scene this year for AVN, and I was last year too. And I'm not getting raped or pretending to be killed, or anything.
Last year it was for Squirt Gangbang 4. It was all girls, seven or eight of them. And they're all squirting. It was like wet n wild. And that movie won the best squirting movie last year at AVN.
This year, it's a movie called Nice Jewish Girls. I did a scene with Kelly Divine and James Deen, and we're dressed as Hasidic Jews. And James Deen was a very young rabbi. It was very funny. And I don't think it's necessarily that outrageous. It's actually pretty silly.
Danny: That actually concludes our interview. Unless you have something else to add?
Dana: I'm so outrageous!